Caroline Lucas fact-checks Reform’s head of policy on clean energy ‘lies’

Both Lucas and Orr were appearing on this week’s edition of Question Time, where one of the main topics of conversation was what impact the war in Iran will have on UK energy prices.

Orr – whose party back fossil fuels and have conveniently received millions in donations from fossil fuel investors and climate deniers – doubled down on his defence of gas and oil.

He claimed that “when the wind doesn’t blow, you need gas to back it up” and blaming rising bills on what he called “unreliable renewables.”

Host Fiona Bruce pushed back, pointing out that oil and gas are sold on global markets which therefore sets the price that Britain then pays.

“How does that insulate us,” she asked.

That opened the door for former Green Party leader Lucas to challenge Orr directly. She dismissed his claims outright, pointing out that fossil fuels are “sold on international markets to the highest bidder” – meaning more drilling at home does little to shield consumers from high prices.

Orr attempted to argue that domestic supply still has some influence, but Lucas was having none of it. When he again blamed renewables, she firmly rejected the idea they are unreliable, arguing instead that the real solution lies in better infrastructure, such as interconnectors that allow countries to share clean energy when conditions vary.

Clearly frustrated, Lucas accused Orr of misleading viewers, saying: “I just despair at the kind of lies James, you are telling to people,” she said.

Orr shot back that his claims were “not lies” – only for Lucas to bluntly respond: “They are.”

Reform have repeatedly called for the UK to give more licenses for drilling in the North Sea, claiming this would make the UK more independent in its energy.

But this week  research from the University of Oxford completely debunked this argument.

The research found that if the UK was powered entirely by clean energy, households could save as much as £441 annually on their energy bills.

Conversely, maximising oil and gas extraction from the North Sea would only save between £16 and £82 annually per household.

This was perfectly explained by energy secretary Ed Miliband over the weekend on Laura Kuenssberg’s show, where he outlined why crowing from Reform and the Tories about drilling in the North Sea was way off the mark.